Welcome back to Written in Blood, a Wicked Horror interview series featuring novelists and screenwriters specializing in genre output.
When it comes to Goosebumps, author R.L. Stine has something in common with his young audience: “I just live for the twists in these books,” he says.
The bestselling series of children’s horror novels has sold over 400 million copies, with fan favorite titles including Night of the Living Dummy, The Haunted Mask, and Monster Blood. But despite all the 90s kids who woke in the middle of the night certain that Slappy the Dummy was hiding under their bed, or that a demonic scarecrow was lurking outside their window, Stine never set out to give kids…well, goosebumps.
“I was never interested in horror,” he says. “I never set out to be a horror writer. My whole plan—all I cared about—was being funny.”
The author‘s mix of humor and horror has led to numerous Goosebumps spin-off series, as well as film and television adaptations, including Netflix’s upcoming Fear Street: Prom Queen.
I sat down with Stine to talk about his start in comics, why kids are the best audience, iconic Goosebumps covers, his preference for humor over horror, the addiction of writing, Fear Street: Prom Queen, and more.
Wicked Horror: I’m excited to chat with you because I met you back in 2012 in Philadelphia when you were on the Red Rain tour with Justin Cronin.
R.L. Stine: I remember that day. Everyone was there to see Justin Cronin.
WH: If there’s one thing I think of that jolts me back to my childhood in the 90s, it’s the phrase, “Reader beware, you’re in for a scare.” I know you wrote Red Rain for all the 90s kids who grew up with Goosebumps, and I really love that book.
R.L. Stine: You’re the one! Yeah. Where was everyone else?
WH: I was wondering if you had any more plans to write more adult fiction.
R.L. Stine: No. Period. I don’t know why anyone would want to write for adults.
WH: Not as much fun?
R.L. Stine: They’re a terrible audience. Terrible. My middle grade audience—that’s the best audience. They’re it. I get them the last time in their lives they’ll ever be enthusiastic—7 to 11. They’re great. Then they turn 12, maybe discover sex. They have to be cool, and they’re gone. They’re lost. That’s it for authors. But 7, 11—they want to read you. They want to know you. They want to talk to you. They want to buy things. I didn’t have any luck with these adult books. I did four adult novels. And the reason I wrote Red Rain—you’re right—is that all these people who grew up with Goosebumps on Twitter and Facebook were saying, “Write something for us! Why don’t you write something for us? We’re old now.” So I wrote Red Rain, and it was a disaster. You were the one who bought it. It was a horrible flop. Where did they all go? They told me to write it, and then they all disappeared.
WH: That’s really surprising to hear, because I would have thought—like you said—you had that built-in 90s audience that grew up and was looking for something more elevated.
R.L. Stine: Oh, yeah. No. I mean, it works for some things. You know, the Goosebumps movie with Jack Black. That was the number one film in America because the grown-up Goosebumps readers came for nostalgia’s sake, and they brought their kids. So we had, like, two audience streams coming in. So it worked for the movie. It didn’t work for the book. [Red Rain is] a nasty book. It’s really gruesome.
WH: That’s why it works for me. It’s that 90s Goosebumps, elevated.
R.L. Stine: Well, then, you’ll like the new Fear Street movie.
WH: In my experience talking with writers, I find that the people who write the scariest stuff are always the funniest people. Why do you think that is?
R.L. Stine: Well, you know, I was never interested in horror. I never set out to be a horror writer. My whole plan—all I cared about—was being funny. And my whole career was supposed to be about being funny. I wrote about 40 joke books for kids as Jovial Bob Stine, and I did a humor magazine for Scholastic that was sold in their book clubs for 10 years, called Bananas. That was like my life’s dream—to have my own Mad magazine. And I did it for 10 years. When the magazine ended, I had no idea what I’d be doing. It’s kind of embarrassing, because being scary wasn’t even my idea. It was an editor’s idea. This woman at Scholastic, Jean Feiwel, was a publisher, and I had lunch with her, and she arrived at lunch angry. She’d had a fight with a guy who wrote teen horror, and she said, “I’m never working with him again. You could write a good teen horror book. Go home and write a book called Blind Date.” She even gave me the title. I didn’t know what she was talking about. What’s a teen horror book? So I went running to the bookstore to buy a bunch of them and see what it was. And then I wrote Blind Date. And it came out. It was a number one bestseller. I thought, Wait a minute, and a year later I wrote one called Twisted. It was a number one bestseller. I said, “Forget the funny stuff.” I’ve been scary ever since.
WH: It worked out.
R.L. Stine: It worked out. But, you know, it’s kind of embarrassing, since it wasn’t my idea.
WH: But it brings us to Goosebumps, which is still going strong. One thing that I love so much about the series, whether it’s the books or the 90s TV series is that it’s very true to life in that kids don’t want their parents around until they’re in trouble. And the parents are always useless, which I love.
R.L. Stine: Yeah. Yes, right?
WH: When you started Goosebumps, up until now, was it always intentional to have the parents be inept and out of the picture and useless?
R.L. Stine: Yes, yes. Always the whole idea. People always say, “What are the morals you’re teaching in Goosebumps?” And I always say, “Well, there aren’t any.” The main moral is: run. Run away. But the whole idea is that you’ve got these normal kids. They’re never special. They’re just normal kids, and they’re facing some horrible dilemma. And they have to get out of it on their own. And the parents either don’t believe them, or they’re not there, or they’re totally incompetent, and they’re useless.
WH: Back in the 90s, going to the library, the Goosebumps, covers were the most iconic thing that a 10-year-old could see in the library. How much input have you had over the years of what the face of the product is?
R.L. Stine: Well, back in those days, [I] had quite a lot. With the Goosebumps covers, Tim Jacobus did like 100 cover paintings.
WH: Yeah, they’re great.
R.L. Stine: It’s amazing. And we didn’t even meet for 3 years. They didn’t know they kept us apart. I didn’t meet him until like the third year of Goosebumps. And he was just amazing because he’s really the only cover artist we’ve had who gets it. [Goosebumps is] funny and scary. The other cover artists get the scary part, but Tim really got the humor. And that’s what I think made his covers amazing. Early on, I was doing 12 a year. I was writing a Goosebumps every month, so he had to do 12 cover paintings. I would send him maybe a paragraph and say, “This one is about a boy who goes into a mirror and disappears and comes out left-handed.” And then he would come up with a cover painting just from one paragraph. And he always got it right. It was amazing, except for one cover—Say Cheese and Die!, a book about an evil camera that shows photos of bad things that are gonna happen in the future. The cover came in, and it was skeletons barbecuing.
WH: I remember that one.
R.L. Stine: Yes, it has nothing to do with the book. And so the editors called me. They didn’t call Tim and say, “Change the cover.” They call me and say, “Bob, you have to add a scene with skeletons barbecuing to make the cover make sense because [Tim] can’t change the painting.” So I added a dream sequence. Easy, right? The boy goes to sleep, and he dreams about skeletons barbecuing. And that’s the only time the cover didn’t match the book.
WH: You mentioned the Jack Black Goosebumps film, and I think there’s a line in it that we both really enjoy where Jack Black as you says, “Every story has a beginning, a middle, and a twist.” Do you have a favorite twist in a book or a film where you thought I wish I would have thought of that?
R.L. Stine: That I’d have to think of. I wish I’d written that line. It’s such a perfect line, you know? I try to put at least one major twist or two major twists in every Goosebumps book that change the whole thing. I just live for the twists in these books. That’s all I really care about. To be serious, so much of children’s literature is so linear. It just goes in a straight line. It’s all so predictable, you know? This is going to lead to this and this up to their happy ending. So I love to tease the kids. Yeah, that’s why, when I outline a book, I try to get the ending right away—so I can figure out how to keep them from guessing the ending.
WH: Kids are really craving stuff that’s going to disrupt—and something they don’t expect.
R.L. Stine: Right? That’s one big secret of Goosebumps—I think why it’s lasted 33 years.
WH: Something else that’s pretty amazing to me—going from Goosebumps to the Fear Street [trilogy] back in 2021. It was a giant hit. Now we have Prom Queen coming out later this year. Is there anything you could tease about it, because you did mention the gore aspect of it.
R.L. Stine: It’s a bloodbath. I’m shocked by these films. [Goosebumps] didn’t do anything R-rated. Even my life isn’t R-rated. And then that trilogy came out on Netflix, one [movie] a month, and I was shocked. I don’t have much input in these movies at all. No one wants the author around. These movie people want to do their own thing, right? So when I saw them, I was just…I was really shocked by how violent and how many teenagers had to die in every film. But then they were all number one on Netflix, so I got to like them. And now this one goes way farther as far as the gore. It’s really a bloodbath.
WH: Is it out this summer?
R.L. Stine: Um, am I allowed? Yeah. May [23].
WH: That’s exciting. It’s a lot closer than I thought.
R.L. Stine: Yeah, they didn’t give us a date for a long time, and then we just figured out they just said Memorial Day. People love it when you kill teenagers? Why is that? Why do they like that so much?
WH: That’s something that I recently read, where you mentioned in an interview that one of the big differences between Goosebumps and Fear Street is no one ever dies in Goosebumps.
R.L. Stine: That’s true. Even the ghost. If you’re a ghost, you’re a ghost like a hundred years ago.
WH: Was that something conscious from day one?
R.L. Stine: Yeah. These are 7-year-olds, 8-year-olds. They don’t need characters dying. When you ask kids to make up scary stories, they’re always so much more gruesome than anything I would write.
WH: You mentioned that your ideas tend to come from three parts of the Idea Store: Experiences, Memories, and What If. What department of the Idea Store do you find yourself shopping in most often nowadays?
R.L. Stine: Um, the Desperate department. Kids’ most asked question is “Where do you get your ideas?” Which, of course…you can’t answer that question. There’s no good answer. Two-thirds of my fan mail from kids [is] “Dear R.L. Stine, Our teacher is forcing us to write to an author, so I chose you. Where do you get your ideas?” So I was just trying to find a way of giving them something to think about. Mostly, you know, I don’t try to think of ideas anymore. I’ve said this before. I just think of titles now because I’ve done every story you can do. I try to think of a really good title, and the title will just lead me to the story. I just finished a Goosebumps last week. I’m just revising it. It’s called One Night at Camp Bigfoot.
WH: I’m surprised. Have you tackled Bigfoot or Sasquatch before, or is this the first time?
R.L. Stine: No, I’ve never done [Bigfoot]. But see, that title will lead me to the story. A recent one was called Goblin Monday. I’d never done goblins. Then you figure out What happens on Monday? I just think of titles now. That’s it.
WH: You recently said on Twitter that your newest Goosebumps might be the weirdest one you’ve written.
R.L. Stine: Yeah, I don’t know how I got away with. Well, it has a talking fish. How did I get away with that? I don’t know. Say My Name! Say My Name! comes out on Tuesday. Yeah, it’s pretty strange because these boys, you know, they’re out fishing, and they’re outside, and all of a sudden, all these creatures are saying, “Say my name! Say my name!” They can’t figure out what’s going on.
WH: Well, that’s a great case of the title informing the story.
R.L. Stine: Yes, right? And nothing like stealing from Beyonce.
WH: Stephen King can’t say he did that, so…
R.L. Stine: Yeah, right.
WH: You’ve mentioned that you can’t go too long without writing because you get a little antsy, maybe 10 or so days, which is something I can relate to. Because writing feels like an addiction, it feels like a rush. It’s a lot of fun, but it’s also a lot of hard work. What is it about that makes writers feel we have to keep going?
R.L. Stine: No, it’s an addiction. It really is. I was talking to Lee Child. You know, Jack Reacher. And he was the same way. He said he’s always thinking when he’s not writing. It’s a total addiction. I don’t know how else to explain it. But for me, it’s not hard work. If you really like to write, it’s not. I hate it when I’m on an author panel and there’s always some author who says, “Writing is hard. Writing is so hard I have to lock my kids in the garage so I have time to write.” And I think writing isn’t hard. Writing is fun. You’re creating your own world. There’s no heavy lifting. You don’t have to wear a hard hat, right? Writing’s fun. I never give advice, but if you go into writing thinking it’s hard, it’ll be hard. But if you go into it thinking how much fun I’m having, I’m making up all these people, then it’d be much easier for you. I work from ten-to-one now. Those are my hours. I write every day. Those are good hours, right? People would kill for those hours. It’s the best part of my day. I still love it.
WH: That’s good so many books and decades later that it’s still giving you that spark.
R.L. Stine: Yeah, no, I still really enjoy it.
WH: When you’re working on subsequent drafts of whatever project you’re working on, is there something that usually feels like it needs the most work? Is it character? Is it story? Is it the scares? What do you find yourself going back to?
R.L. Stine: I’m lucky I have really good editors. Susan Laurie’s been the Goosebumps editor almost since the beginning. And she’s really good. I don’t get away with anything. It’s usually some kind of illogic in the plot. I have this one I’ve just finished revising for her—two girls lost at night, and she’s in the woods, and these two cats appear. Susan just said, “It’s too obvious who they are because the other two girls show up.” You know, you have to be careful what you’re giving away, what you’re leading them to. That’s usually the problem. It’s usually some kind of illogic.
WH: That’s always the stuff that another pair of eyes can point out better than we can point out.
R.L. Stine: Yeah, no, it’s true. Well, my wife was my editor for all the Fear Street books, almost all of them. It was a nightmare, being married to your editor. Can you imagine? All we ever thought about were plots. Just plot. I’d always say, “Jane, the next one will make sense.”
WH: Couldn’t get away with anything.
R.L. Stine: No, didn’t work out.
WH: Were there any instances back in the days maybe prior to Goosebumps when you got a specific literary rejection that kind of stuck with you where you had to change what you were doing?
R.L. Stine: No, there’s only been one—one Goosebumps book where I had to change. My editors usually say, “Hype it up, Bob! Make it scarier.” I guess maybe I tend to be a little conservative in that department, and they always say make it scary, or make this scene bigger. But there was one very early Goosebumps book called The Girl Who Cried Monster. It was about a girl who is in the library, and she comes to know that the librarian is a monster. And no one will believe her. In my original draft, the librarian ate a kid. They thought that was going too far. And I changed it. I put a bowl of live turtles on [the librarian’s] desk, and every once in a while, he’d reach into the bowl, and then he’d crunch on a turtle. It’s better. It’s better than eating a kid, right? It’s crunchier. It’s more visceral somehow.
WH: And you get that suspense where, anytime you see the turtle, you know what’s going to happen to the turtle.
R.L. Stine: I wanted to do a Goosebumps book called Morons from Mars. It’s a good title, right? And I’m not making this up. The editor said, “I’m sorry, you can’t do that. You might offend the morons.”
WH: I don’t think the morons are going to be reading Goosebumps.
R.L. Stine: No, I don’t know. I think maybe they all are. He really said that, though: you might offend the morons. And they wouldn’t let me do that title.
WH: That’s insane, because all of the things that are scary in Goosebumps that could possibly offend or scare somebody, that’s the thing?
R.L. Stine: Yeah, yeah. Right. It makes a good story.
WH: Speaking of fear, you mentioned that when you were a kid, you kind of felt a little bit like an outsider. You rode your bike a lot. You thought there was something lurking in the garage.
R.L. Stine: Yeah, you’ve done a lot of research.
WH: Being a kid like that, and feeling that sense of otherness and that panic, did you sense then that it might lead to something creative? Or was it more of Childhood is not great right now. I just want to get through it.
R.L. Stine: No, I had a lot of fear. [I was a] very fearful kid and shy. Maybe that’s why I stayed in my room writing all the time. But no, I never thought about. I didn’t think that I would be a writer or anything ‘til much later. I wanted to be a cartoonist. I mean, that’s why I was drawing these comic books and things. But I had no talent. I would bring these comic books into school and pass them around. The kids would say, “Bob, your drawings suck. Your drawings are awful.” And they were right. Everyone could draw better than me.
WH: Well, that answers my next question. I was going to ask if you ever had the opportunity to pitch illustrating a Goosebumps cover. But I guess not.
R.L. Stine: No way. Oh, I really can’t draw at all. It’s a shame because I loved comics when I was a kid. I grew up with the easy horror comics—Tales from the Crypt and The Vault of Horror. They were a major influence on me because they all had twists. They had big plot twists, and they were funny as well as scary.
WH: But you’ve also mentioned that horror movies don’t really scare you. You kind of laugh more than you get scared.
R.L. Stine: Yeah, I think I’ve always thought horror was funny. It just makes me laugh. I mean, obviously, there’s something missing in my brain. Seriously, because people come up and say, “After I read your book, I had to leave on all the lights. I locked the doors.” I’ve never had that feeling of being scared. Horror just makes me laugh. I just think it’s funny. Humor and horror are very closely tied together. It’s the same visceral reaction, really.
WH: But not getting scared with horror movies, do you find yourself seeking any other type of like thrill-seeking activities? I know where you grew up in Columbus, you’re not far from Cedar Point.
R.L. Stine: That was our summer vacation every year—five of us in a little motel room. Yeah, my brother and I, we’d be sitting in Lake Erie. You know, playing in Lake Erie. This was like a thrill for us. In the summer, my dad would have a week or 2 off. Lake Erie would be green and gloppy. You know, we didn’t know…the lake was totally polluted.
WH: But as a kid, you just think, Water! I’m going to go play.
R.L. Stine: Yeah, I’m going in the water. It’s just great. Yeah, we love Cedar Point, too. I don’t remember it that well, but my friend Joe has ridden every wooden roller coaster east of the Mississippi. I wrote a book about the one in Cincinnati. The park was called [King’s] Island, and the roller coaster is called The Beast. It’s this ancient wooden roller coaster that goes back into the woods, goes up, and then goes down, and then goes through the woods, and then comes back around, and then does it a second time. And I don’t really like roller coasters, but I had to ride it in the front so I could write this book about it.
WH: Was that a Goosebumps book, or unrelated?
R.L. Stine: No, it was done by Simon & Schuster. You know, standalone. The Beast and The Beast 2. It was a great ride, but I hate roller coasters, really. And then I got off riding this thing, and all the whole staff was waiting: “How did you like it?” I had to lie, you know?
WH: Probably felt like you were disappointing them by saying you weren’t scared.
R.L. Stine: Oh, no, I had to say, “No, it was great.” And then [my son] Matt, of course, wanted to ride it again. So we rode it again.
R.L. Stine: Yeah, if you’re doing all the roller coasters, you should check out The Beast.
WH: I’m gonna look it up. I haven’t heard of it.
R.L. Stine: My wife and Matt went on a roller coaster in Busch Gardens. The one in…where is it? Virginia?
WH: Yeah. Williamsburg.
R.L. Stine: Yeah, Williamsburg. I don’t remember what it was called. When they got on there was a sign that said, Ladies, please remove your earrings. That’s really bad, right? But I guess it was just a wild roller coaster. And when my wife got off, all her freckles were gone. She had pale white skin. She always had freckles. They were gone.
WH: Do you have any horror books or films that you’ve seen or read recently that you would recommend?
R.L. Stine: Probably not. I don’t watch much horror.
WH: I can’t believe it.
R.L. Stine: Don’t tell anyone. Not really into it. I read mostly mysteries and thrillers. Trying to think…is there a scary movie I like? Not for a while. Yeah, no, I can’t think of anything. I’ve been watching old movies—all these old Noir films from the forties and fifties. All this great black and white stuff.
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WH: Have you seen the new Goosebumps season?
R.L. Stine: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I’m not involved with it, but yeah, I thought it was pretty good. It’s not for kids. I just think that’s strange. It’s Goosebumps, but it’s not for kids. You know, they’re trying to do Stranger Things. Did you watch it?
WH: I haven’t seen the new season.
R.L. Stine: Yeah, it’s pretty good. David Schwimmer. He’s a pretty good hapless father.
WH: It’s a staple in a Goosebumps.
R.L. Stine: Yeah, they do Stay Out of the Basement. You would like it. There’s a great scene in the second episode. He’s down in the basement, and this plant—these tendrils— start growing out of his arm. And they look like long worms. They’re plant tendrils coming out, and he’s pulling them out, pulling them out of his arm. It’s a great visceral horror scene. Really, one of the best scenes in the show.
WH: I have to check it out. I am looking forward to Fear Street. That’s definitely going to be on my calendar, seeing some teenagers get their comeuppance.
R.L. Stine: Oh, boy, do they.
WH: But I don’t want to keep you much longer. I want to be mindful of your time, but thank you so much for joining me and chatting. This has been a real thrill.
R.L. Stine: Oh, I enjoyed talking with you. This was fun!
WH: Yeah, I’m glad. Thanks for doing it. And next time you want to come to Philadelphia with a new adult fiction book, I’ll be there.
R.L. Stine: You’ll be there. You’ll be the one.
[This interview has been edited for content, length, and clarity]
